TT: Wikipedia whitewashers!
When associates of Diebold, Wal-Mart, Monsanto, the Mormons, the Church of Scientology and the Republican Party see something embarrassing on their Wikipedia page, they don't worry much about the truth content of the information, or about Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy, they just remove the irksome entry and often put text more favorable to them in its place.Time to add another to the list of whitewashers. Can you guess who?
All links and most in-text references to sources critical of TT beliefs and practices were removed from the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia page back in May (I restored the link to this page). The nice thing about Wikipedia is that history of all edits are preserved. Here are some egregious edits made by someone identified only by their IP address (70.181.222.24) which traces to the Cox broadband service in Atlanta. Here are others which add text that only a TTer or a true apologist for them could write. Other edits were made by someone logged in as "Davidderush," the well known TT internet pit bull.
An ex-TTer friend of IOTTC learning of this commented: "What happened to 'Count it all joy when others speak ill of you...'?"
Funny how those most dependent upon the free speech protections embedded in our laws rush to censor other points of view when given the chance.
UPDATE 9/05/07: Well, they've been caught red handed again.
First the good news: since I wrote this article, many of the original external links to the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia article have been restored. Among these was the link to the "twelvetribesteachings" site that archives a collection of hundreds of "teachings" of Spriggs as well as the TT's Intertribal News. Trouble is, these documents were not meant for outsiders' eyes and are a public relations liability for the Tribes. Here is to be found Spriggs' unvarnished eschatology and views on child discipline, blacks, gays and the role of women. No one takes credit for making available this mountain of material, although one might guess that this is the work of an ex-TTer. Interestingly, the mystery compiler/publisher says nothing negative about TT, letting the reader draw their own conclusions from the documents themselves. The TT will never officially claim these as authentic, but when I showed selections of a few to several TTers, none expressed any suspicion that they were less than genuine. It would be a monumental feat to forge, or even alter, all these hundreds of documents. The writing style for most of them is the same and it's clear to me these have a single author. Many are on points of doctrine and aren't particularly scandalous or noteworthy, while others will stand the hair on your head.
Someone (anonymously, leaving only an IP address) once again removed the link to this site and offered a pathetic rationale for doing so on the discussion page. The editor Seldom4 smartly traced the IP address to Parchment Press, a TT-owned business in Coxsakie, NY, chided this perpetrator, and restored the link to TwelveTribesTeachings site as before.
When will the Twelve Tribes organization learn the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia page doesn't belong to them?
posted by Aloysius Horn at 2:05 PM
107 Comments:
Way to blow it out of proportion. From what I saw all they did was change the racism section to point out that they have people of different races in their communities which makes the claims of racism kind of ridiculous. It's a valid point because they do have members of various races and they are treated as equals.
I notice that most of your posts focus on the teachings of Spriggs but in my dealings with the TT they appear to act on them very rarely. I think you are judging thousands of people by one man's words, which seems unfair to me.
Wrong on all counts.
You obviously didn't examine the links to the page's history and to the changes made by the mystery individual from Atlanta who removed links to sites critical of TT, including this one. The Twelve Tribes teachings site, the link to which was removed, is not even critical of TT. It has just made available Spriggs' teachings that are not supposed to be for public consumption. I showed a number of these to current TTers and not a one ever claimed that they were other than genuine.
TT does allow African Americans to join TT: only those who denounce the civil rights movement as "evil" and accept Spriggs' teaching that God intended blacks for servitude to whites. This hardly absolves them of the charge of racism in our opinion.
As for your point that Spriggs' teachings have little effect on the daily life of TTers, ask them next time why they balance on stools to defecate. Did the general membership vote that policy in?
Keep in mind that the face TT shows to the outside world and the reality of life in TT attested to by many ex-TT visitors to this site are very different.
this really is a site full of garbage and slander and hearsay anyway... i applaud the twelve tribes for trying to remove this site of garbage from their wiki...
If there is nothing but garbage, slander & hearsay on this site you'd think it would be easy for you to point out examples and make an argument for your position. The fact that you and other TT apologists never do is telling.
It's telling that we have interests besides criticizing other people's religious beliefs? It's your choice not to eat at their establishments and I respect that, but I have little respect for a site that bases claims off things it found on the internet or was e-mailed. If someone wants to join the Twelve Tribes that should be their choice as it should be their choice to be educated about it or not. Hopefully it is the former but sites like yours really don't help matters. I have no religious tendencies whatsoever and yet I manage to respect other's beliefs, including the Twelve Tribes.
You said:
Keep in mind that the face TT shows to the outside world and the reality of life in TT attested to by many ex-TT visitors to this site are very different.
Exactly. You're only insider views of life in the Twelve Tribes are e-mails you've gotten from supposed ex-members. They may be true, they may not, or maybe, as is likely, a mixture of both. Correct me if I'm wrong but you were never a member of the Twelve Tribes so I'm sorry if I choose to believe the happiness I see on their faces and that of their children rather than anonymous text on a website.
You're just creating more hatred and intolerance in the world which I understand to be something you oppose. In times such as these more hate is the last thing we need.
I agree with you that hate is the last thing we need. I and the other IOTTCers have never urged anyone to hate TTers. Many are people with no particular hostility towards others searching for a meaningful life who have been misled and taken advantage of.
While I don't hate TTers, I do detest the ideology that TT promulgates which is one of intolerance, patriarchy and complete loss of personal liberty. I detest the absurd notion that in preparation for "martyrdom against the Beast" children should never be exposed to non-TT books or ideas and that they should beaten with switches if they exercise their imaginations.
It's Spriggs who says that homosexuals "deserve death" and that MLK was full of "evil." You'll find no such language on this site. If you're looking to give an intolerance award to someone, best look to the leadership of TT.
TT is not just a small group of people with weird beliefs who wish to keep to themselves: their recruitment effort is enormous with their bus tours, presence at outdoor concerts across the country, "Free Papers", and their slick website. Cafés like Maté Factor are central to this effort. Because they're actively affecting the community in which we live and doing their best to erode societal values most of us cherish, we have a responsibility to push back (in ways that respect their rights, obviously).
We didn't go looking for a group like TT to protest, THEY came to our backyard here in Ithaca, NY. As long as they are down the street promoting a Taliban-like social order and child martyrdom to beasts (call it religion if you like), IOTTC will be here urging a boycott of Maté Factor and other TT businesses.
As I prepare to be a contributing writer to this site, I have to defend the criticism aimed at this Web page.
This Web page offers a plethora of information on the Tribe--information one needs to balance the plethora of information the Tribe distributes.
The Twelve Tribes is a dangerous cult that brainwashes young people and promotes a close-minded society that only promulgates negativity and hatred. By looking at them face value, I can see why many people would deny that.
Erica, this is not a religion. The Twelve Tribes do not follow a "religion." It's a philosophy, one created my a troubled man who felt alienated from the traditional church and created this cult out if spite.
Now, the Twelve Tribes owns millions in real estate and has brainwashed young people into joining by showing them the smiles and the "freedom."
And once they are in, and have that free bed at night, and they alienate these people from their families, turning them into robot speakers "LAke of Fire" dominionists, it becomes quite apparent that the Twelve Tribes is probably one of the unhealthiest creations on earth, next to satanism.
No one cares if these folks created their Cult and lived happy lives. But what is astonishing is what they promote and how it completely contradicts what religion is supposed to be about. This is why you see so many people decry the traditional Christian Churches who denounce gays and homosexuality. Common folks, intelligent, open-minded majority of people, are just tired of this crap.
Well, the Twelve Tribes takes it two steps farther with their ideology. And I suggest, rather recommend, you just glance at the material.
Sure, we all see the smiles and the happy children. But we also know about the harsh punishment, their lifestyles and beliefs. The writers here go beyond face value and dig deeper to provide the other side---the darkside of the cult.
And this offends them so much. Because they've been able to succeed on their nice buses, coffee drinks and real estate monguls to build a fortress of money. How funny that one of the basic tenets they have is to deflect materialistic instincts.
But there is a far deeper sense of this cult that many people just don't see, including you. This Web site helps turn the lights on.
I just hope these people can find their way out.
I see that neither side will ever agree on this matter and that this argument could go on endlessly, especially since most of what you say is based on hearsay ("Taliban-like?" Please!). However I will make a few final points and then leave it at that.
I'm not sure what fairytale world you have been living in, but intolerance and loss of personal liberty is something happening everywhere and in most religions. At least the TT is willing to take in people that would normally be shunned by other groups, unwed mothers, drug addicts, etc. I've seen mothers read non-TT books to their children, I've seen them watch TV on occasion, and I've seen them use their imaginations without punishment, all of which are things many overzealous Christian parents often forbid their children from doing.
I'm not sure I would call their website "slick" but anyone with half a brain should be able to read their words on their website or in their papers and think critically about them. You are putting very little faith in the human race by assuming people are so susceptible to their recruitment methods. I think a better method of recruitment is showing people the happy and hardworking people who live in these communities so I'm curious exactly how they are eroding your societal values? I can't speak for the community in your area but the community here are ideal citizens who work hard, pay their taxes, and help their neighbors, which is more than I can say for most U.S. citizens.
Anonymous, thanks for your recommendation that I read more on the subject of the TT, but I have been researching them for years, before I ever met them, so I don't think my knowledge of the matter is lacking. I am curious what gives you the right to judge what a religion is though, seeing as how by definition one person belief's can be their religion.
As for the matter of "brainwashing," no reputable scientific or psychological organization has confirmed that it is real so I really can't agree with you that these people are members against their will. Many TT members still have relationships with their families and I think your basis for that argument comes from ex-members who claim the TT tried to cut them off form their families. The writers here aren't digging deeper, you're just rehashing things you Googled without actually getting to know your subject. If you actually knew them you wouldn't be talking about how they are materialistic or just as bad as Satanists. I hope Suanne Gumienny's documentary will finally provide a much-needed objective view on the subject.
I judge people by their actions, and if I were to compare the creators of this website and the Twelve Tribes, who do you think would seem the better person? Don't promote lies and then pretend you are somehow preforming a public service, you aren't fooling anyone. This isn't Jonestown, no one is being kept there against their will. If they were going out and harming these groups they supposedly hate I would feel differently, but they aren't. They are living their lives and not intruding into others', which is more than I can say for most religions.
Erica,
The very fact that we encourage responsible comments sympathetic to TT here should tell you something about our motives and sense of fairness. I will note that other anti-Twelve Tribes sites do not do this and that TT's own site lacks a comments forum.
We will never post something we know to be untrue here. We do, obviously, have to rely on what ex-TTers and outside observers tell us go on in the communities. It is not fair to characterize honest accounts based on personal experience with the group as mere hearsay. Of course it is possible that someone with an axe to grind will feed us bad information. If and when this is pointed out to us, we will publish a retraction. You say we are promoting lies. That is a serious charge. Can you be specific about what stated in this blog is a lie?
I stand by my characterization of the group as Taliban-like. All analogies are imperfect, but the similarities are obvious and chilling, even if (thankfully) TT has never had the opportunity to govern a country. (BTW, do I have to have personal experience of the Taliban to be critical of them? Is all information about the Taliban not provided by a member in good standing of the Taliban to be dismissed as hearsay?)
As for the TT not intruding into people's lives, you need to talk to those who no longer have a relationship with a loved one or family member who has joined TT. (See the blog post "How I lost my sister" below.) I haven't heard such complaints about any other religious community here in Ithaca.
the fact is we and others know garbage when we see it and dont need to point it out... you do that already with this site... you are the spinster here... putting quotes areound words like "death" and "evil" dont add credibility to anything you say... in fact this entire site lacks credibility all together... why dont we and others 'like' me respond to your garbage ? that is why... it is garbage... complete and utterly garbage... you do a great service however... you gather together those like you and keep them from visiting these hard working god fearing folks in the first place... they are less distracted by haters like you and have time to actually love one another... and raise their children... maybe , just maybe your garbage spinster words will insite the hatred you so covertly try and disguise here and invoke someone to actually harm these people... thinking what you spin here is actual true... then i suppose you will have ultimately succeeded... as for this site... judging by the fact your last many posts have had 0 comments its telling of what people really see in it... so ill leave it at that... and like erica, ill just cast you off to the bin bucket of the internet... as anyone else who is not a hater will do...
Oh dear.
Personally, I find this site to be VERY informative. I live about five miles away from one of their major locations in the northeast, where they also own a store, two restaurants, and the headquarters for BOJ construction. From what I've seen with my own eyes, everything on this site is true. I've seen the cowed children as well, and watched a mother recoil in horror when my 18-month-old merely said hi to one of her TT children. At one time I seriously considered staying with them to see what they were more about, but even cursory research turned up scary stories about broken families, abused children, and bankruptcy. Once you're in, there's no easy way out.
And they do mislead in their recruitment efforts. They use their businesses for major outreach and recruitment. They target more "hippie" locations and events-- the organic foods, loose clothing and long hair initially appeal to people who embrace that aesthetic and make it seem like they're just another commune. I've been very concerned about a friend of mine who has a very high interest in, and close association with, the local tribe. She's pretty much against everything they REALLY stand for (aside from the earthy-crunchy lifestyle) but totally overlooks it.
erica said"If someone wants to join the Twelve Tribes that should be their choice as it should be their choice to be educated about it or not."
But she failed to mention the children that are dragged into this group who have no choice. Nor does she mention the spouses, children or both that are abandoned by the other spouse who has been encouraged to save their soul and leave the "unbelievers" and I'm not talking about unbelievers of the Christian faith but the unbelievers of the Twelve Tribes fanatical teachings.
I AM an ex-member of nearly a decade and can attest to the validity of the facts posted on this site.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
The TT has taken over the "Wiki" page for them and Spriggs's page too and have turned it into a "Evangelistic tool" and directory for all their propaganda sites and "freepapaers". I sure wish someone with the skills and talent could once again bring back the supposed "neutrality" of the pages.
I wanted to post this here to bring it back from my early days of "opposing" the Tribes and their destructive ways.
"The rise of "Yoneq" and the hardening of the new wineskin..."
Every word that was written here is of optimal importance for anybody that is thinking of joining or has left, to read.
I posted this 5 years ago while I was at Bob Pardons place http://meadowhaven.org/
for those exiting cults... and the words still ring true, maybe even truer today...
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/6119.html
quote from the above letter:
"Grace happens in spite of the legalism
of the leadership. But grace doesn't stop because
you left TT. You can't bottle up grace. It is there
because it's in your hearts. The "law" says grace is
a part of a specific physical community, a specific
locality, a certain leadership. . . the spirit of
God's grace goes where there is love: where there is
being practiced the simple, but profound ethical
principles found in The Sermon On The Mount.
Spiritual authorities who base their authority
on some system of "law", are disturbed by an attitude
of grace. The leaders of the law want to make the
false claim that they somehow own grace, have the only
legal spiritual franchise on it. . .that they alone
get the chance to dispense it to whom they choose;
but, as the old blues song says: "it ain't
necessarily so!"
While writing all this, it looks like Gene
eventually became the same type of Christian minister
that he grew up under in the small Alliance church his
family attended in Chattanooga, Tennessee:
controlling, legalistic, overly-critical, preacher who
does everything he can to maintain his control over
his little flock. And I doubt that Gene can even see
it. I'm sure in his own mind, he is still fighting
for God. I think he has been so busy for the past 30
years building this organization that perhaps he
hasn't had time to sit down and reflect about what he
is doing and why he is doing it.
So, enjoy your chopsticks. . . but it's OK to eat w/
spoons, forks or even with your hands. Just give
thanks for what you do have. It's all God's good gifts
of grace."
respectfully and sincerely from the desk of David T Pike
nabashalam@yahoo.com
A member name Kafir once left the Tribes community I was living in and took a community business credit card with him and charged approx. $3000 while he was away from the commune with his wife Tamidah and family. When he returned to the community nothing was done about it. No repentance, nothing. This is am example of the double standard in the Tribes. If you've been there long enough, you can get away with almost anything.
It's like Geroge Orwell's book "Animal Farm." We're all supposedly equal in the Tribes, "but some are more equal than others!"
When I lived in Island Pond in the community, the community had been warned by local authorities not to remove asbestos from a building they owned unless they had licensed professional do it. Well, the Tribes went ahead and had their men do it anyway, with just cheap dust masks to protect them. While the work was going on, someone reported the Tribes of breaking the law in this way. At the time we thought it likely a fellow Tribes members had reported this to the local authorities. So, the Tribes was then to be fined by the Island Pond township. But the Tribes shepherds worked out a compromise with the town whereby the Tribes would sweep the streets and local highway for 2-3 weeks. So, that's what many of us members did everyday for awhile was sweep the winter sand off the local streets and highway, because the shepherds once again thought they were above the law, because they think they are Israel, God's Chosen Nation who can do what they want.
Hi Jesse, noticed your posts and think we may have lived in the community together some years ago. Not sure. I still think about the communities and miss it there in many ways. I think as a group they've learned much through the years. But no one is ever above the law of the land, we agree. Most of the people I know and stay in contact with in the community are people who care about others and want to do what is right. Keep in touch. Good to hear from you after all these years.
I have friends still in this religious sect. I'm not sure whether to call it a cult or not. What I do know is that to their way of thinking, you are not going to God's premier Heaven unless you join them and stay in there. They do really begin to mess with your mind. This place is not all it seems. You join and give them all your possessions and money. If you decide to leave, you'll be lucky to get a bus ticket. Doesn't that seem odd, giving them everything, instead of the poor. They take everything you got, and then make you poor. Yoneq and his 4th wife Ha'Emeq, get to call the shots. Everyone else is under someone else 24/7. If you enjoy working long hours for room and board and believing you're God's chosen disciples, this is definitely the place for you. Have a good time. Chances are, in about 3-6 months you'll leave. Most of the original disciples left a long time ago, when they thought God's 1400 mile Holy city would someday surround Chattanooga Tennesee! Gene Spriggs is a false prophet as far as I'm concerned. He used to say they'd never live west of the Mississippi River, cause God never wanted anyone to live past there. now they're in Colorado and California! What a crock of crap. The sisters used to wear head scarves most of the time, then one day Yoneq and/or Ha'emeq decided everyone wouldn't. Now they jjust mainly wear them to gatherings. These guys are making it up as they go along. It looks nice in some ways from the outside, until you move into the workhouse. Shepherds shepherd, and elders eld, and sheep disciples you get to work. A few men in there have abused children and should rightly be in prison right now. But, as yes, Master Yahshua is so merciful, even to pedophiles.
I think the women should be allowed to have their babies in the hospital if they want to. Having your baby in a hospital is often viewed as "lacking faith" or "failing to trust Our father." I'm very concerned about some of the still-born deaths that have occurred over the years. And, I'm concerned about the real motives for pressuring women to have their babies at home in the community. Is it about money, the hospital bill? Is it about the government not knowing about the birth? They say sisters can go to the hospital, but it's always in the context of "if she lacks faith..." What if she lacks faith in the community? While I lived in the community, the community was always right and the individual was always wrong if something negative happened. It's almost always the individual that gets blamed. They talk about "judgment beginning with the household of God." But seems like they really don't believe that. God will hold the communities accountable as the nation they claim to be, when they have hurt people, and never repented for it. And by the way, I couldn't even talk about any of this in the community. That would be considered "opposing the Body" or "opposing the Anointing" (AKA Gene Springs) and "opposing God." I'm tired of Yoneq and Haemeq being at the top of this organization as untouchable king and queen. Who are Gene and Marsha Spriggs really accountable to? I'd like to see Yoneq and Haemeq someday have to stand in the middle of a household circle and everyone tell them both everything that's wrong with them, like they have done to others. Maybe they should have to stand there naked like "rebellious" children have had to do in the past. Maybe they should also be locked in a dark closet for hours or be "scourged" from the back of their neck to their heels. I'd like to see their credit cards, airplane flights, and shopping trips taken away from them, and they really live like the new disciples that get recruited, instead of casually writing new teachings and Inter-Tribal news articles. I'd like to see Marsha Spriggs at the dish sink doing all the dirty dishes, doing tons of dirty laundry, changing diapers, and cleaning toilets, and finally someday hear her openly repent to the whole Body for the adulterous affair she had with a newer disciple, but never received any "discipline" for. Unbelievable. And if I could say one more thing. Yoneq and Ha'emeq don't have the power to forgive sins, but they act like it. Telling people this or that has been forgiven. Really? How do they know what God has forgiven? Why do they even need to open their sanctimonious mouths? They have become a defiled clergy priesthood. The very thing they condemn and repeatedly whip Christianity for. Instead of Yoneq posting little critical notes on things, like when someone forgets to put the lid on the mate pot. He should post a sticky note on himself that says, "Stop everything and look in the mirror and take a good look at what You have created...remember to do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Janice, sounds like you're just a disgruntled ex-member. You knew what you were getting into. Get over it.
I visited the community in Ithaca on some Friday evenings. They're nice people. Alot nicer than my relatives! I'm not sure I would live there or not, but I think we should give them some slack.
Why don't you all just leave these people alone. they're not hurting anyone.
It's about more than being "disgruntled"! Sometimes people get badly hurt in various ways. It shouldn't be denied or covered up. I'd have much more respect for the communities if they were basically more honest. It's about honestly. Especially the leaders. It's supposed to be about salvation and caring for one-another. Okay, how does that happen? I like what Janice said about "doing unto others as you would have do unto you." Somehow salvation doesn't need to be defined always in terms of pain and suffering, and exhaustion from being over-worked, and sometimes medical neglect. If they could only take a few steps back and look at the big picture. It shouldn't be about how fast we can expand and open new communities. Slow down and take care of one-another and have a few more people in each community to shoulder the work. I shudder to think what's going to happen when more of the members become elderly and need more care. It seems to me many new disciples simply get burned out and leave. It used to be "apostolic" for everyone to get to bed by 9PM. What happened to that divine revelation? Guess it was over-ruled by money and more expansion plans and need for late night labor. I'd still like to believe in this place. I had some good times there. It's got good qualities, but somehow there's other motives mixed in. I wish it didn't have to be this way. Yoneq could wake up tomorrow and change it all for the better, but not likely to happen. He and Haemeq will give an account to somebody someday. I won't bow down to them anymore. And, I don't believe he's the Elijah or came in the spirit of Elijah. He's simply a man who was inspired to do something that got bigger than him and what he was capable of.
Could someone please find and tell Ha'emeq Marsha Spriggs to please come over to the dish-sink? We have a lot of dirty dishes that need washing tonight. And after all these years, it's her turn to do some dishes!
I don't like it that they make members work long hours when they are seriously ill. It's bad enough that you're working for free.
Community Shepherds are now searching rooms, I'm told by someone who has lived in one of the communities for several years. He said, "They have to..." IPods are of particular interest. One shepherd says, "No matter how often we've warned members against them, Ipods are still making their way into the community."
I'll never forget a sincere young man who moved into the Tribes, and the shepherd told him to throw all his books on God, religion, and meditation into the dumpster outside. Then later he was told he couldn't visit his brother in prison.
The community lifestyle cuts you off from your family and friends. They become your father, mother, and family. You serve them. They are literally God to you.
When my wife and I moved into the community some years ago, her teddy bear was taken to the wood-stove and burned up. And after wash day, some of the sisters had burned up some of my clothes without asking also! The Tribes are not so much about God as they are about the mind of Gene and Marsha Spriggs. The communities is their baby. They call it salvation. I call it slave labor in the name of God.
In the communities "we have not loved enough" which translated means: you have never done enough, you have never worked hard enough, you have never worked long enough, so get back to work, and don't stop until late at night for "we labor day and night for our Twelve Tribes."
"We have not loved enough."
In reality, we have not slept enough. We have not received proper medical care. We work while we are sick and exhausted, so we can expand as much as possible and recruit others to lead the same exhausted life, and we will teach them: "We have not loved/worked enough." So they can recruit other to do and teach the same.
One Tribal bi-polar sister lay down for a few minutes one afternoon, soon in came an older sister who declared, "What do you think this is? A holiday!"
(There are no holidays or vacations in the Tribes).
And somehow, God is happy with all of this exhaustion which in some mystical magical way will supposedly bring Yahshua/Jesus back to earth, so all the Tribes members can someday rule over the Universe and planets and the rest of us. Yes, the rest of us, if we escape the Eternal lake of Fire will be on work crews outside of the Holy City/New Jerusalem under the supervision of Twelve Tribes members.
One small thing the Tribes Apostle didn't mention to the members though, Jesus' disciple the beloved John didn't write the book of Revelation. In reality we don't know who wrote Revelation and a number of other books in the New Testament. So, would you believe and base teachings and doctrines upon anonymous Books?
See "MisQuoting Jesus" and other books by Bible scholar Bart D. Ehrman.
I'm all for the real Jesus, but I'm not for the Jesus/Yahshua that Gene Spriggs and other previous Christians have created.
Maybe it would be okay to share this. It is true. Shortly after my spouse and I joined the communities, we were asked how much money we had and encouraged to donate it to the organization. So we did. I did ask at the time, however, why new members give their money to the community, instead of to poor people in society or relief organizations. It was explained to me that my new brothers and sisters were poor, so giving to them would fulfill Jesus' instruction of selling all you have and giving to the poor. Well, at the time, that sounded reasonable to me. So I handed over our entire savings of about $3000. Soon after I was informed that the money would be used to send one of our elders Qatan and his wife Hasidah on a much needed time away. I swallowed hard. I didn't oppose this, but it really shook my faith. How could they take all that money and give someone wlse a vacation. Yes, I know, the Twelve Tribes doesn't have vacations, but some do! And I never saw this brother do any manual labor, none. This also bothered some of the other brothers who literally worked liked slaves 6 days a week. Qatan sat around writing Twelve Tribes Freepaper articles and went to meetings and presenting teachings to us revealed by God to Apostle Elbert Eugene "Gene" Spriggs aka "Yoneq". So we gave up our "rotten stinkin' lives in the world" and gave them all our money, and Qatan and Hasidah went on "a much needed time away." Ahh..such is the fallacy of any form of communism - communal living where everyone "shares" the money. What a fool I was. Maybe "someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one..." John Lennon was really high on something when he wrote that. What a sick joke and lie. You'll "live as one" all right, in poverty working like a slave.
Don't some of you people have anything better to do with your time than bashing the Twelve Tribes? They're not hurting you. And if you joined them, that's your stupidity. Sure, I think some of the things the believe are stupid. So what? This is the USA. I'm going to still eat their food and drink their smoothie's on the Ithaca Commons. try and stop me.
When we lived there our incoming mail return addresses would be looked at and sometimes questioned. Like if it was relative, I would be asked what they had to say in the letter, and if they wanted me to leave the community. We were asked to stop all incoming shoppers catalogs, because "the community would meet all our needs." And they didn't want the children to see any literature from the outside world which is all under the control of the Evil One.
When I first moved to the community, I started dialing the telephone one evening to call one of my children who lived with their mother outside the commune. Immediately another member saw me using the phone and asked who I was calling. I told him I was calling my small child. He looked at me very concerned and said, "We don't just call people in the world." "Our life is here now." Later, I went to someone in higher authority and got him over-ruled with permanent permission to call my small child.
If you move-in and/or join, everything about you will be scrutinized and corrected. They are attempting to be perfect disciples of Master Yahshua, which really means you follow exactly what Gene Spriggs "Yoneq" (the founder) has brought forth in the Teachings.
The Teachings are given about 3-5 times per week. You can humbly ask questions, but you are never allowed to disagree with anything. That would be rebellious and not "honoring the anointing."
I'm shocked "The Yellow Deli" hasn't been mentioned. I found this site because there's restaurant in the San Diego area (Vista, north county). It's funky, (admittedly) delicious, eclectic and VERY unique for the area. It's always SUPER crowded and I spend $12 for a soup and sandwich.
But that's besides the point. Of course the amish-hippie appearance immediately made me wonder what they're about as that is rarely seen in urban southern California. AND they're open 24 HOURS but only 5 days a week. They close friday night (presumably for the agave fest?) and re-open sunday night. I looked on yelp and read some reviews that mentioned they were part of twelve tribes, but I'm not one to judge on religion, so I didn't let anything like that stop me from going.
Since then, I've gone 5 or so times, take out very time. There are always a large number/high density of workers and after reading this I'm wondering if they're all getting paid legitimately. Anyways, tonight while picking up my order at The Yellow Deli, something struck me, a (VERY) pregnant worker. I thought, that's odd that someone that far along is running around a very busy kitchen, visible from the cash register area. Now from what I'm reading about the intense labor in this group it makes more sense now!
Something else I notice like a FLASHING FIREWORK is the vibe I get from the workers. The guys all make eye contact and one even did a flirty "double-eyebrow-raise" tonight. Was he trying to "recruit" me? There's always two guys there to greet at the door with great big (almost too big) happy warm smiles. As for the women, I feel very threatened and intimidated by them, despite the descriptions of them being submissive to their men. My first visit, I was second in line. The woman in front of me left, and as I came to the register the woman worker behind the counter did not acknowledge, look at, or greet me. I looked at her to try to make eye contact, but as I obviously stood there at the counter, she looked down at her papers then walked away. I saw her chatting with other women workers and laughing very hard and joyfully, but as I obviously stood there she took her time. Finally a male worker walked up to me gave me eye contact and a smile and asked if I had been helped. I told him of my order and he got it for me and began to ring me up. Then walked over the woman who had ignored me. She was older, maybe in her 50s or 60s and seemed "in charge". She asked what he was doing, and the younger man told her he was ringing me up, but he didn't charge me for the cheese, because he figured it was included. She seemed upset and asked to speak with him privately. As I waited she and him had a bit of a discussion about the transaction. Eventually she returned, I paid, and she barely spoke a word to me. It struck me as odd and was a bit off-putting. Since that first visit, ALL OF MY VISITS are this way. The two older "in charge" women are very cold and callous to me. The men are warm friendly flirty and helpful. The younger women are usually waitressing or in the kitchen (but never make eye contact or say welcome or goodbye as the men do). I haven't dealt much with the younger women (since I get take out).
(to be continued on next post)
(continued from previous post)
I know I'm not a first-hand member of the TT community or anything, but I just wanted to make you all aware of The Yellow Deli. Have their businesses been investigated by the bureaus to ensure all of their employees are being paid fairly with workers compensation/maternity leave?
Jesse (the previous post), I feel for you, I can't believe your generosity went to this Qatan guy's vacation. I APPLAUD you for realizing this was a (as you call it) "sick joke and lie". You are strong and smart (not a fool as you put it).
The Yellow Deli preaches on their website and even in their food that everything is love and that "God is Love." When I go in the restaurant I see customers (especially older ladies) enamored with the staff and their genuine-seeming "love" and (deliberate and over-the-top) SLOW-paced demeanor. I can see how nice, vulnerable people can fall in love with this "act" as I see it. After 5 or so visits I'm sad to say I can't go back to that place and support something that is CONFIRMED by actual former (some long-time) TT members! These posts are recent and I hope that the people that support their businesses (me until now finding this blog) will realize. Tag THE YELLOW DELI in your discussions/on your site so that people can find it.
Take a look at their "OUR HISTORY" on the Vista restaurant's site. It's different than other cities'.
Thanks for an intriguing read-up on the dark side of twelve tribes.
The workers are not paid any money, they only receive room and board. In one household once many years ago, each couple received a weekly stipend to go out and get an ice cream or save the money for personal needs, but that soon ended. You're basically working for free. You're usually up and about from 6am-11pm+, double work shifts are common. The communities I was in had no worker compensation insurance on the members. There's no health health insurance of any kind. None. Pregnant women generally do not go to any doctor or nurse throughout their pregnancy and delivery. They see pain and suffering as good things that God wants for you. The leader "Yoneq" Gene Spriggs and his wife Marsha could make things different, but they won't.
You get corrected and criticized often in the community and the kids get hit often for the smallest things.
But some people join, desperate for a new life of some kind. They make friends and feel loved.
Some members are happy and striving to do their best for God. But others, like the cold women you met, are very unhappy and over-worked. Some feel trapped as well.
The community has the feeling of security. You can feel like everything is taken cared of, but really it isn't. Often the leadership doesn't really know what they're doing.
I lived in one Twelve Tribes community where the goats were not properly cared for and started to get sick and die. I watched one mother goat painfully die, there wasn't even a gun around to put the poor thing out of its misery. I prayed an angel would come and end its suffering. Within a few minutes she passed on.
What most people don't really realize about the communities is that money disappears like the wind. There's usually not money for what you may need. One sister went for two years without a bathrobe. Our household at one point was so poor, that we only had $10 per week! allotted for each person's food and personal needs!
In another Tribal area, further back in time, all the married people had to sell their wedding rings.
But here's the kicker, all the communities no matter how in debt they are with home and business mortgages have to pay the "tithe" 10% for "evangelism" to reach out for "sheep" so that they can "give up their rotten' stinckin' lives in the world" and "come to where God lives", because "God doesn't live any other places on earth." Only in the Tribes. And then the new people get to add to the free labor force.
Are brothers and sisters sharing the wealth? No. The money disappears. No one gave me any to enjoy.
They talk about "laying wealth at the feet of the apostle(s)." Am sure Yoneq & H'emeq and Hakam & Havah Wiseman always have whatever they need.
If people just use a little common sense, they can see through the veneer of this life.
"We live just like the early Christians in the book of Acts..." Really? And what was that really like? Donations from other places had to be constantly taken to send to the communal churches in Jerusalem. Communism tends to make the majority of members dirt poor. It's sad. That's because theirs always leaders sucking up most of the money, either for themselves or for their dreams and the fulfillment or expansion of their dreams. The individual is neglected, the group/movement becomes supreme.
Because the Tribes are trying to expand too quickly, unnecessary suffering results. But I was told that unless everyone stays busy all during their waking hours, people tend to get themselves into trouble just like children.
So, get to work you sheep. "Submit to the anointing" aka Gene Sprigss aka Yoneq (& H'emeq). "You no longer need to be concerned about your own needs, the Body will take care of you." "You now have a will for your life.""Before you were lost in the world, but now you have been found by your brothers and sisters.""We don't go home for the holidays, this is our home, love is our home.""We came out of the world and into God's Kingdom, never to leave." "We gave up our own opinions. Dead men don't have opinions. We have died to the world system and our old life and are now living a new life for the one came and died and lives for us, Yahshua Messiah the King of Kings." "Take off your head (your thinking & opinions) and put it on a shelf, and take on the mind of the Body (Gene Spriggs' teachings." We will tell you how to think.""You will come when you are called, and go when you are sent." "It's doesn't matter how you feel." "We live by the objective Word.""We live in complete unity with one-another.""There is no other way to be saved." "Yahweh is raising up the Twelve Tribes as a light to the Nations." "Most of the people now living in the world will go to the Lake of Fire, but some will be saved." "We need to find our brothers and sisters in the world who are lonely and hurting and longing deep in their hearts for a new life of love." "We have given up everything to follow Yahshua." "We have given up homes, marriages, children, relatives, friends, money and possessions for something of far greater value."
"After dinner, Let's have some fellowship at the dish sink (cleaning piles of dirty dishes by hand), then you're needed at the Yellow Deli to work until midnight..." "Make sure you go right to bed after work, we don't want to be late for the morning gathering at 7AM."
My friend first told me about their life. He was very excited about it. He told of a people who loved each other. They worked and prayer together each day. They kept the Sabbath rest. They home-schooled their children. I wasn't interested at first. But my friend seemed so happy. It's like he found what he had been looking for his whole life.
First he was visiting Island Pond. All seemed well on the surface. They he went and actually moved into the community somewhere in Massachusetts. Then everything turned bad.
My friends happiness turned to sadness. Disbelief. He was crammed into a small single brothers room. Brothers were forced to use bunk-beds to share a very small room together. To avoid various air-born diseases from living so closely together. And to have enough fresh air to breath, they kept the windows opened all night in the middle of winter!
My friend was freezing cold most of the time. Then they would also go outside in their underwear in the winter weather to have snowball fights.
But the breaking point for my friend was the frequent cries throughout the house of children being hit. They would be punished with long flexible wooden rods for anything disobedient. Even for making funny faces, or refusing food when they were already full.
My friend had visited many monastic communities throughout the United States. but his experience at the Tribes communities was the worst.
He was also surprised to be told that he could never be saved by God, unless he joined the Tribes. That God's spirit only lived their and everyone else in the whole world believed wrong, except the first believers in Jesus centuries ago.
My friend left and went back to being Catholic and helping street people at a Dorthy Day catholic Worker community.
By then I had begun visiting the communities. My wife and I were out of work and desperate for a new kind of life. The Tribes warmly welcomed us. They seemed happy and kind at first. But soon things got ugly. It was all about doing exactly what you're told. Every doctrine must be believed. We were told to stop thinking for ourselves. We were in the Body (Tribes) now. Each day someone else would have "a will" for our lives.
Our incoming mail was examined. Our telephone calls were listened to. And we worked like dogs for free.
The Tribes people at that time lived in homes that they did not properly maintain. They actually trashed and worn out house so bad in Island Pond, that some were simply abandoned and they moved into other houses.
I've never forget the looks on the children's faces as they stood on commune houses porches with nothing to do. No toys to play with. And any kind of disobedience was met with the rods of correction.
I'm back "in the world" now and have found that people in the "world system" can be just as kind as loving as in "New Israel" Tribes. Some people in the Tribes can be pretty mean and cold-hearted. It's scary what some people have gone through. Going without right medical care.
On the good side, there can be some very happy times in the Tribes, and some people find friendship and a marriage partner and things are better for some people in the Tribes, than if they were drug addicted on the street and things like that.
Maybe someday the communities can be different. When they no longer think they're the only ones. When they really start taking care of each other. And doing the things they say they believe in.
Right now, I no longer trust them. I've seen too much go wrong. Later members say it never happened. Yoneq taught us it was okay to "not tell the truth" if it hurt the community in any way. That others "in the world" may not always deserve the truth.
If you want to avoid a lot of hurt and heartache, I would stay away from these people.
"It wouldn't be so hard, if it were not for self-regard."
In the community you are told to die to yourself. The movement, the emerging culture, the beehive, is what really counts.
Individuals can be replaced. They can be asked to leave. but the "hive" will continue on.
Personal happiness and fulfillment is not the goal. Surrender and obedience is what really counts. Fail to do this, and you have Death and Hell Fire to look forward to.
Ever wonder why the God of certain religions such as this would torture people eternally? Would you do this to your child? I wouldn't. These type of groups make God look really bad. Oh, I forgot, God loves you. Really? and the next minute your destined to the Lake of Fire...
The Twelve Tribes can try to make their life look good. But it's really just another form of communism. You end up with two groups, the shepherds (the communist party) and the sheep (those who have nothing and work for nothing).
They preach one thing but live completely different and they hold out on you about what they really think about many issues until you've given them your money and future and made a covenant.To sum it up my life was a living hell there and i am very fortunate to have recovered as much as i have.
On the Missouri farm in Weaubleau, one of elder Naboth's own sons was found to be having sexual intercourse with some of the farm animals. It all got swept under the rug and that same son married later that year. I am telling the truth. A truth they would deny and call slander. Some of those who lived there know what i am talking about. I lived there several years. I decided right then and there that i dont believe in god, and it has been my experience that it is a created concept that is used for personal interest. Everything i need to know in order to be a good person is already inside of me, and if there is a god he'll understand my justifiable reasons for doubting his existence.
They don't do this so openly anymore, but when my wife and I first moved in, our polyester clothes were burned up in the woodstove by the laundry sisters without asking us!
Also stuffed animals are banned, so my wife's teddy bear got burned up also!
It doesn't say in the Bible that you can't wear polyester or have stuffed animals, but Apostle Eugene Elbert Spriggs AKA Yoneq and wife Marsha AKA Ha'emeq decided that no members would be allowed to wear polyester clothing at all, except for jackets and coats. And decided that stuffed animals and such are evil. No I'm not making any of this up.
Some years later, we were allowed to wear polyester, if it didn't touch our skin. There was some sort of concern about negative ions poisoning your skin or something. I don't know if this is true or not, but am sure God didn't speak it to Ha'emeq or Yoneq, anymore than He did about what color underwear is allowed or banned.
Trust me dear readers, once you have a religious Prophet or Apostle, you've got a big problem. Human beings hearing from and speaking for God. Little Popes telling you what to believe and how to live.
Yoneq is truly a Pope for the Twelve Tribes, and they will defend him and his wife Ha'emeq no matter what.
I don't think we should judge the whole tree by a few bad apples. The community should admit bad fruit, since the world tends to find out about incidents anyway. But I think we should look at the whole picture. What do you think?
When I recently asked one of the shepherds why the members have to work such long hours, he replied with a smile, "Adults are like children, if they're not kept busy, they will get into trouble."
If Jesus were alive today he would probably say, ..."be not called Apostle or Apostolic Worker or Shepherd, for you are all brothers and sisters, and you have one Apostle and Shepherd who is God in Heaven."
I like the music and sharing from brothers and sisters at the gatherings. It is very meaningful to me. I have real friends there, and it seems like they are doing their best to love their children in the Ithaca community and one-another. I also have some concerns and continue to try to sort this all out in my own mind. Think it's helpful to talk about this, And hear from everyone.
They'll continue to work for 16 hr. days, even when you're very ill with pneumonia, and they have no health insurance, so members go without medical care for as long as possible, some have actually died from medical neglect. While they were dying in bed, they were brought real fruit juice, something you otherwise would never get, but no medical care. And pain? They don't believe in any pain killers for anything."It is through much trial and tribulation that we enter the Kingdom." "Yahshua (Jesus) was well-aquianted with pain and suffering."
It can look really good on the outside. But inside there often is a lot of suffering and unhappiness. My wife says "there is a lot of pretending going on" from a women's point of view, and that most of the women in her estimation are unhappy. Some never smile at all. My wife says only a couple women would even talk to her as a visitor. She felt rejected because she felt they viewed her as unuseful to their community. A liability instead of an asset, maybe because she was older and didn't have much money.
I am an exTTer myself. Spent 13 years from 1997 to 2012 in Australia. I have looked at the Teachings published online and I can tell you they are the exact teachings we were taught day after day.They are either the transcript of a gathering at which Yoneq spoke with added comments chosen for their pertinency(or echoing tone) by anyone else in the group that day, or a teaching written by Yoneq. If they happen to be written by someone else it is always the case of an elder next in line clone as I perceive. And to comment on someone's remark about the members life not reflecting those harsh intolerant teachings, here it comes. Yoneq rules. Beards and ponie tails? Yoneq, Child discipline?Yoneq. Some details of life might be different according to household heads preferences etc. But everything important is dictated by this noxious,vengeful,intolerant,ignorant,superstitious, racist, mysogenist, narcisist, melomaniac.
The gatherings, friendships, working together, and a new identity can be very meaningful and special, but the daily reality is exhaustion "working day and night as we labor for our Twelve Tribes as did the Apostle Shaul (Paul)." One sheherd I've known for years told me, "Adults are like children, they need to be kept busy or they will get into trouble." They claim not to have a "clergy laity division like Christianty does", but in reality they do. The "shepherds" rule over the "sheep", and the Apostle, and his wife, rule over the "apostolic workers" ("dignitaries") and everyone else. There is an outward beauty in various ways that wraps and shields newcomers from really seeing how things work? The leaders statements and teachings on black people and Native Americans are clearly racist. He actually supports slavery outside of the communes and supports the past subjugation of Native Amercians. Members will deny this, but it is completely true. I wish I had never been a member in this group. It has the affect of messing up your life for time to come. If you do leave, it's better to never go back and try to replace this cult with something else that is meaningful to you and not harmful to your physical or mental health.
Gene (Eugene) and Marsha Spriggs AKA Yoneq and Ha'emeq are the ones who decided how everything would be in this cult. My big question is, who inspired them. Are they somehow self-deceived? I don't believe they are cons, but it's very difficult to say what really goes through their minds. What makes them tick. It's also strange that members talk frequently about Yoneq, but not much about the influence of Ha'emeq, his wife. This was true even before her sex scandal with a young disciple emerged years later. This groups as a whole is very good at denying any truth that makes them look bad. It would be so refreshing someday for the Yoneq and Ha'emeq and the whole Twelve Tribes to actually repent to the world.
After my wife and I moved in, one of the elders began to inquire why my wife and I hadn't had any children. He tried to know about our sex life in detail. Then the women at times would gather around my wife during the day and try to convince her from the Bible that she wasn't saved, even though my wife considered herself a born-again Christian woman. They made her repeatedly cry. They tried to break her of any salvation assurance she had, apart from the communities. The message was always clear, you cannot be saved from everlasting punishment from God, unless you join the cult. The Tribes are the only way. They are God's container for His Holy Spirit and those people who are really being saved. Yahshua (Jesus) died so that your sins could be forgiven by trusting Him AND joining the community! And, if you leave the cult, God automatically hates you and will punish you, now and in the life to come. Looking back, I realize how sick and perverted their Gospel is. Their Gospel is no more "Good News" than trying to follow all the rules in Islam, or by repeatedly praying the Rosary and performing endless penance in traditional Catholicism.
I still miss the people, but I don't want to be a slave either.
I lived in the Twelve Tribes in Brazil for some time, and I have relatives that still live in it, since 1999.
I'm pretty sure they WOULD take me back, if they didn't strip each penny I had when my mother got the inheritance, 8 years back then.
So, synthesizing what I have to say to you: don't believe the shit they try to sell, until you get fucked up by yourself, until they destroy the bounds you have with your parents, your family! It looks awesome, but it's just a different kind of fantasy that people tend to believe because it tastes very seet on the surface, until you byte it and begin to swallow.
Hello, I lived in a couple Twelve Tribes Communities in the US and I would like to say they are very kind and hardworking people! What is important to them is serving God and learning to love others the way the Son of God did! I learned more there in a few years than all of my other years in life combined! Yahshua (Jesus) and his people are amazing, but it is no small thing to serve him - if you get baptized it is like marrying Yahshua and his people.
Hello, I lived in a couple Twelve Tribes Communities in the US and I would like to say they are very kind and hardworking people! What is important to them is serving God and learning to love others the way the Son of God did! I learned more there in a few years than all of my other years in life combined! Yahshua (Jesus) and his people are amazing, but it is no small thing to serve him - if you get baptized it is like marrying Yahshua and his people.
I was a member for about 7 years and in that time I came to see many beatings but if you say anything to the parent you are held to judgement as well. The beatings start around 6 mo. old, and the tool used is a baloon stick (a small wooden dowel) soaked in oil to strengthen the dowel. They start using the hands and bottoms of feet to beat (until those parts develop callouses) then the back, legs, thighs etc until the whole body is one giant callous. A truly sick and disgusting people.
There are WAY TOO many injustices going on in their lives to even begin to mention here. If a youth begins to have feelings towards another and say they hold hands as a sign of affection, they are brought before the Qahal (council) and judged and either have to move out with their parents or are forced to marry this person they held hands with. Mental abuse is ongoing and daily, depression, delusion, suicide, homicide etc etc and go completely unchecked. I say a doc is needed with more truth.
These are not Godly people, they are simply a bunch of cowards who cannot live in the world on their own so they congregate together and codepend on one another. They lie on taxes, homeschooling and other documents to save money. They cheat the elderly, rich, well off, etc to gain more money to buy more properties and infect another community. There is blatant harm, theft, prostitution, and other evil acts going on. Oh and most awesome of all the children,
Members are appointed by the "government" of that community (speaking on Yashuas behalf) and then go on to molest, sodomize, rape those children (unreported to the authorities) and then simply kicked out. The mentally ill are left untreated and simply "prayed for" and if they don't "recive" the prayers and become magically mentally well they are also kicked out. The infirm, the sick, are denied medicine and simply need to "deal with it" even to the point of death.
EVERY single aspect of a members life is public. Sex lives of single men, women (regarding masturbation) sex lives of Husbands and wives (to critique whether it is sinful or godly) what you drink, what you eat, what you wear etc etc.. Members are held to a standard the leaders themself do not follow (ie Ha'emeq and her affair with Yadutan) ANY other "normal" member would have been thrown out immediately yet Ha'emeq is "forgiven".
I have debated over writing a comment or not for a while after reading comments by others and here it goes...once you get past the "preaching" and conversion process you would see the hypocrisy, lies, scandals etc that go on DAILY! Children are beaten mercilessly almost to the point of death, and some have died as a result.
Whenever you are going through ANY kind of suffering or pain in the cult, they compare it to their dumbass "yahshua" carrying his cross!!! And now my formerly brainwashed poor sweet mother who wouldn't hurt a fly will live in pain for the rest of her life due to their selfishness, there's a lot of people that want to believe that they're this charming little addition to society and don't even wanna know the truth. I am 23 as well, fortunately my mom left and I followed, they screwed us totally as well, my mom who weighs barley 110 lbs has permanent back damage from constantly lifting heavy pots and boxes during the 14 years of slave labor
Well, if you want to know about the dark side of it, I know it well.
Take a read at this, believe in every word, I'm from Brazil and that was a scandal that happened there and they tried to put it under the rug:
yadutansandmarshaspriggsaffair(dot)blogspot(dot)com
And if you want to really go down the rabbit hole about it, take a look at this:
yattt(dot)blogspot(dot)com
Most people there have good will, but they DO trick themselves, and the leaders are mostly hypocrites.
Also, they don't deny anything of the scandal I just sent you. But the leaders, specially Yoneq (but the other big leaders too), tried to make the issue disappear into thin air, before they were forced to make a real council about it and judge Ha-emeq (and leaders there punish people very hardly for much less than holding hands of a married people, masturbation is a total different level of adultery there).
If you don't know who Ha-emeq is, you'll get a little shocked: she is the wife of Yoneq.
I ended up having to take pill for the rest of my life because I had a psychotic episode after 3 months living there, when I was 18. They simply tied me up for days instead of taking me to a medical facility, taking the whole shit to another level, and trying to take command satan to get out of my body instead of giving me medicine. When that happened and my father took me out of there (a lot of details I'm just not mentioning, but that agravates it), they didn't even want to take me back!
Now I understand this is a total bullshit they got carved deep inside my brain, but imagine having all of this inside of you while you're a child, a teenager! That shit completely fucked me up!
Can you see the type of shit a double-thinking institution like this can bring to a family? Now I'm 23, and had almost 14 years without my mom, without the confort a child needed, having to struggle against the guilt of having betrayed the almighty fucking god and the fear of going to the lake of fire because of it, condemned to burn the entire fucking eternity for not wanting to be controlled, for wanting to be free and think for myself!
My mother gave them my entire enharitance by going there and left me with nothing more than NOTHING. But I was too young and didn't do anything legal against her because, SHIT, SHE WAS MY MOM! I felt guilty just to imagine taking money by force from my mom and the children in the community, I was only a 10 years old boy, my grandmother had just died and she had a very important place in my life, I didn't want to fight for her money like if I were a crow flying around her grave.
And if you don't know who Yoneq is, he is simply the man in charge, the man claimed to have direct connection with god, the man who nobody there dares to disobey, nobody! That is the man who tried to cover up the biggest scandal this shit has had in 40 fucking years. That's what makes me mad about this: they try to make you believe that place is a whole new experience of purity and holiness, and love, by hiding everything bad from you until you get your feet too deep in the shit.
i cant believe other people are calling these people child molesters among other things.... it horrible. these people are my family and it really bothers me that others see them this way
Asher-Australia, 1375 Remembrance drive Picton N.S.W. i was beaten with a paddle/Rod non stop for such petty things, was never right. always on the defensive, i basically was not allowed to be a child , all the children were not allowed to talk among-st them selves . the leaders are completely selfish,.. no bikes no radio no tv, no toys. no prerecorded music. its so wrong, im still going through psychological treatment for several different things. the leaders name is Andrew hundleby, and Nun.
I lived in the Tribe of Gad (Winnipeg, Canada) as a WOOFer (Willing Worker On Organic Farm) for 2 months. I was scared of the community at first, but after a week I realized it is NOT a cult, and grew to love the 12 Tribes of Israel's kindred spirit and open views on other cultures.This is a fantastic reminder of why I should go back to visit. <3
Much Love
they banished a women that was staying with them when they caught her masturbating in a room alone..and they still believe in and practice forms of slavery..enough said..
I have met many people who grew up in this cult and the abuse is EXTREME. I can't believe they have not been busted. They beat children bloody and they start at six months old. They beat most children many times a day. Do you think that is okay? Yes the world has a lot of evil in it but child torture is part of that evil.
The Twelve Tribes does terrible things to children and is exremely controlling. BEware if you think something is too good to be true it probably is. There is a lot of love in TT members and most are earnest about their devotion to God and eachother, but the group is in many ways destructive and they raise children to be prejudiced and ignorant and the cruelty towards children is appalling. I believe in religious freedom and tolerance but people should be warned about this group.
some guy at a dead show gave me a brochure on these guys ha ha, they sound the complete opposite of what he said they were
I just spent a week visiting a household in my area, and their children are healthy and happy. They're unafraid of the adults around them, they love their parents, they grin, make jokes, play and help out.
Personally, I do believe that in the early years horrific things happened. However, I also believe that the tribes have learned from them and that they don't happen anymore. Discipline- yes. Abuse- no.
Tribes cult has gotten their own way again: the http://www.twelvetribesteachings.com/ site has been taken down form the web. I can't believe. Another person caved in to them?
CHILD DISCIPLINE/ABUSE (physical, medical, and sexual) has occurred and is always denied. Most members sincerely love the children and do not want abuse to occur, but it does happen on a regular basis, and the babies and children are frequently hit with oiled balloon sticks on the palms, buttocks and thighs.
Babies are hit as early as 6 months old (sometimes earlier) for things like excessive crying and resisting an adult's embrace. Children may be hit by any adult member for any kind of “disobedience”, fantasizing, “foolishness”, “gravitating toward one another”, forming “underground” child or teen-only secret communication, make-believe, not sitting still, refusing or not being able to eat all the food they were served, talking to imaginary friend(s), and talking to themselves.
It's unlikely you'll understand how things really operate in this life, unless you spend a year or more there, but at the same time, you may actually be mostly brainwashed by then. I'm not saying this to be mean. In alot of ways, I'd like to live that kind of life, but the last straw for me was when they wanted me to start hitting my 2 year old for trivial "disobedience" like running around the house with another small child, laughing and just having a good time. Then, one of the adult men asked me if I would like him to "discipline" my child. The I really became afraid. Also communities vary "in grace." Some really are more loving and sincere than others. There's different experiences, depending on who you're living with. A few members really are mentally ill or damaged. Some have done some really bad hurtful things in the community. Most of the people are giving their all. It's confusing to think about. Confusing to evaluate, because I like many of the people. But I have to ask myself, "Is this movement really helping people and saving them, or hurting and abusing them?"
I lived with them briefly in Colorado Spings Co and in Warsaw Mo. My husband is still with them. They seem so loving, they truly have a desire to love God...But everything you will read about them... beating their children daily from age 3 months, slave labor, and bigotry, I witnessed personally.
I went to visit this place ,and it is full of mind control,In the last days deception will be ramped ,this is a cult and if the dont repent they will find themselves in hell .the rapture of the church is very very close ,and we need to be saved by Jesus ,because the tribulation period is about ready to start.
Can someone please answer these question? It's clear they believe that at one of the things a person must do to be saved is to give up all their money and possessions to follow God/Yahshua.
Okay, here's one question? Why does the money and possessions have to be given to the Tribes? Why can't it be given to the poor elsewhere? It seems to me having the Tribes ready to collect a person's money is a real spiritual conflict of interest.
Here's 2nd question?
Why hasn't Yoneq and Ha-emeq given up everything to follow Yahshua? Why haven't they given up their credit cards and frequent trips around the country and around the world?
I think these questions deserve to be answered. I don't think any of the members should have credit cards.
I get weary of hearing bad things about these nice people. I can't see them doing anything wrong.
I went to visit the Ithaca community 8am Saturday gathering this morning. The negative reports I read here sure don't match up with the life I see there among the people. Am I missing something? The children appeared normal and actually more full of life than other kids I see in front of TV, video games and smart phones. Am I missing something? The members fed me breakfast and seemed genuinely interested and hospitable to me. And genuinely interested in my family. Am I missing something? I can't vouch for all the various beliefs they may have. But if I were to judge a group by the love they have for each other and visitors, I'd say they're on the right track in this world. Maybe others can elaborate more. Having visited more than a few times there, they and the children appear to be living a normal, consistent, meaningful life. However, am not ruling anything out, and will continue to ask questions and carefully observe. Maybe stay overnight also and be there during the work week. It may be that some of their past blunders reported they have learned from? Past doctrines that haven't stood the test of time also? We'll see. If anyone else has visited recently, maybe let me know here and report. It sounds like more people are coming to visit all the time. I can see how the wholesome life together and love could attract people. Does anyone know what percentage of people remain and thrive? Any past members on this site who have visited other types of spiritual communal groups and remained there? Let me know.
These people now are in our city of Oneonta.
At their deli, The Yellow Deli, a member recently told me that they believe that white people were the first to populate the planet and that all races evolved from them. That is their interpretation of the bible. Thus, they believe that they (white) are superior to all other races. Does this sound like a previous occurrence in world history?
I think some of you are barking up the wrong tree.I know the twelve tribes and they are harmless .They are genuine and well respected by many including the police.Never have i seen or heard of any violence or abuse within the group.
On the other hand Mathew Klein has assaulted and harassed members of the twelve tribes.What a hypocrite!
leave them alone they are good people.
Cult !
haha, you sure make it sound like you don't know anything about them. The children do go to school (homeschool), are absolutely allowed to talk (and play) with one another, and those that live on farms have 'pets' in baby goats and cows that they adore. They're HEALTHIER for not using internet/tv, and for not randomly kissing (or having sex with) whomever they like. And family visits are a frequent occurrence, UNLESS your family is actually openly aggressive or something.
Hey, where else can you go to hear "God's Chosen People Israel" declare that "College is stupid, for people who are too lazy to work by the sweat of their brow."? And then, giving their own children basically a 6th grade education?
I could care less about their pet goats. I lived with a brother who took the boys outside to cut off the head of goat they were learning to butcher. The he wanted to bring the big long knife back into the kitchen, but the sisters told him to take the knife to the garage. No one in the community ever ate the goat meat. He's never butchered anything before in his life. The Tribes operate on the foundation of Gene and Marsha Sprigss combined with stupidity with a capital "S" for _hithead.
Can anyone tell me HOW Yoneq decided the location of each Tribe? How come Africa got left out? No Tribes there. And how come Asia got left out? No Tribes there. But North America gets 1, 2, 3+ Tribes! Who figured this all out? Who heard from God? Tell me if you can...
I remember when Christmas came, it was a little depressing that day in the community. No decorations, no tree, no presents, just the usual routine. We had the day off somehow at that time. Around Christmas time when we'd drive down the road from the household to work and other commutes, I remember some of the people in the car saying how ugly the Christmas decorations looked around the town in other people's yards. Maybe we were all trying to make ourselves feel better. After all, we were God's Chosen People, the true Jews, the only ones being saved, we shouldn't be sad about anything, right?
I spent 4 yrs in tt in the Old schoolhouse restaurunt in nova scotia about 20yrs ago. when I met these people I was
on my way to youth jail and planning to commit sucide. they (TT) helped me and took me in. And for that I am alive today
Now I am a public speaker and travel all over Canada speaking to teachers\students,parents,doctors,police,
laywers,judges About the effects of drinking alcohol during pregnancy (FASD)
TT change my outlook on my life and myself and for that I thank them
Let's do something really different, and if we live near one of the Twelve Tribes, go over there and welcome them to town and bring a welcome gift and make friends with them. That way, if they are off or controlled in some way, we have a real basis for communication. Friendship. It's easy to write bad things about them. Maybe somethings need to be exposed. But there should also be some more positive ways to help the situation. Also such as allowing members who wish to leave to come to our homes to stay and help them find work and a place to live. Or if the Tribes cannot not be a good place at all, to form an alternate Tribes community where everyone loves each other and works for the common good, like they are trying to do. What do you think? Would you be willing to try some of these ideas and brainstorm for some other ideas?
Concerning gays, I don't understand what's so great about two men sodomizing each other, and performing other sex acts on each other. People's butt holes are not made for intercourse, heterosexual or homosexual. Or two women licking each other. But it's their life. But we ultra-conservative also have the freedom to condemn it. What I've really wondered about is why this blog doesn't criticize Islam the way it does the Twelve Tribes. Are you afraid, cowardly blog owner? Islam condemns homosexuals also, and believes most fervently in Theocracy. If you people have so much to say about the Tribes people, maybe you should also have something to say about Islam. Try it out. We Muslims will not hurt you too badly.
I am really curious. Why the sudden rash of comments (both pro and anti-TT) that are suddenly flooding into this blog? How did all of you simultaneously come to start posting comments after all this time? Was this blog advertised somewhere? Please fill me in!
I don't know about these other people. I used to live there and this site is on first page of Google toward the top. I used to go to TwelveTribesTeachings.com but it is parked at Godaddy now!! because someone didn't pay their bill to them. Am frustrated about this. One of my friends is looking into this. We also don't know if the Tribes in any way intimidated the unnamed creator of that site since it is their teachings. I don't know what else to tell you. Yeah, I miss my life with them. But, there could be a lot of changes for the better. It's not as bad as it used to be, but still...I guess this is an outlet for some of us. Yeah, it may be a waste of time. Maybe negative? Anyway, anyone who Googles twelve tribes cult now sees your blog at the top. I thought alot of people were already coming to this place? But a couple of people I know come here?
Was there a discussion board at Twelve Tribes Teachings? I know there used to be a discussion forum on TT at FACTnet. I am the admin of this blog and haven't written a new article in years, so I was surprised to be suddenly getting so many comments. This isn't perhaps the best format for real discussion, but I will continue publishing responsible comments, pro and con. If there are any former or current members of the Ithaca community specifically, I'd very much like to get in touch with you and hear your story. Just let me know if you're present or former Ithaca TT and let me know if I can email you a few friendly questions. Best, Al
For the record, I DO believe that the TT is full of wonderful people, and wonderful traditions and way of life. There's not a single person living there who I think would be better off living outside the community-- they lead an idyllic, character-forming life together. If I only shared their beliefs, I could have joined with integrity.
The reason I left (rather than be baptised and stay) was basically that I didn't believe that they were who they BELIEVE they are. From my perspective, the Holy Spirit may have been there at the beginning of the TT, but it's no longer alive there; all that remains are some very wonderful people and the vestigial traditions left over from the inspired beginning. It's like watching the original community of Acts turn into the Catholic church all over again.
As someone who lived with them for 3 months and participated in everything from the inside, I'd just like to remark that if you really knew the people you're talking about, you'd feel ashamed of yourself for suggesting they're victims. That belittles the very serious (and sacred) choice they've each made to be there and live for others and not themselves. The food's wonderful, the kids are amazing, and the money goes to groceries, not Yoneq. Don't be so quick to point fingers.
Well, I also miss the twelvetribesteachings website. Big disappointment when that went off the air. Still go to twelvetribes.org for some material, but the community doesn't give most of the teachings. I agree with most of the teachings and find them profound, but some teachings should be flushed down the toilet. That's part of life.
Jonas, I wonder if the whole thing should be flushed! They're still working double shifts 6 days a week, and yet they condemn communal groups such as the Bruderhof where children graduate high school and go to college, and where members have health insurance and are taken care of, and get proper sleep. The communities have a big wake up call coming when more of their elderly people need serious long term medical care. They are so arrogant and self-righteous in their refusal of medical insurance. It's all about what Yoneq and Ha'emeq want. It's always been that way, and it's sickening. I feel bad for the people I know who are still there. If it weren't voluntary, you'd really have to call it abusive. I wish something could be done to help them.
I really can't disagree with what you said. I honestly feel the same way. I called one of my friends today at a Yellow Deli and he just total me that if I don't completely surrender my life to Yahshua and join the community, then I'm going to hell, because I've already heard the Gospel and if I don't come back I'm condemning myself. It made me a little afraid at first, but then I came more to my senses. He told me that I'm being affected by evil spirits where I live and that the only solution and salvation is to come back. He was very sincere. But I'm tired of being afraid. I don't want to be there working for free and doing double shifts either. Sure I like the food and the brothers and sisters are loving and very sincere. But, I list some things I been writing for myself to help me remember the bad side:
TWELVE TRIBES COMMUNITY CULT
Reasons Why I Left And Didn’t return
911 EMERGENCY SERVICES (POLICE-FIRE-AMBULANCE) may not be called without permission.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN is called an evil man who deserved to be killed.
AFRICAN AMERICANS AND ALL PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT are said to remain under God’s curse, and should still be slaves to white people, unless they become equal by joining the Twelve Tribes.
ALIMONY PAYMENTS for spouses living outside the community are avoided.
ASBESTOS REMOVAL SAFETY LAWS have been intentionally violated to save money.
BEDROOMS FOR SINGLE BROTHERS are usually very small and stuffy with two or more bunk beds.
BIRTHDAYS are not celebrated.
CHILD DISCIPLINE includes frequently hitting children with thin flexible rods on palms, butt, and thigh by any adult member for any form of disobedience on the first offense. Children are punished for fantasy make-believe play, imaginary friends, and anything considered foolishness.
CHILD EDUCATION is equal to a 7th grade public education at best. None of the children receive a GED or High School diploma. They are raised to remain within the community.
CHILD “SCOURGING” used to take place. Children would take off their clothes and be hit for longer periods of time with a flexible rod from the back of the neck to the heels. Am uncertain if this practice continues for very rebellious children
CHILD SEXUAL ABUSES have occurred, but it is almost always denied.
CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS for children living outside the community are avoided.
CHILD TOYS are not allowed, including dolls, stuffed animals, and little cars.
CHILDBIRTH PAIN is not to be lessened in any way, and is seen as God’s will and curse upon women.
CHRISTMAS is not celebrated.
CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS is condemned as evil.
CIRCUMCISION is performed at home on all male babies. May also be required for uncircumcised men.
CRITICISM AGAINST THE TRIBES is not allowed and is called “untrue, malicious lies, and slander.”
DISHWASHING MACHINES are usually discouraged in the homes. “Fellowship at the dish sink,” mainly for the single adult men, while the married people and teens disappear into thin air.
DOCTOR CHECK-UP’S are not usually allowed for babies, children, or adults.
DRUM SETS are not allowed.
DYING TO YOURSELF is commanded. “You just need to die, and give up your life.”
EASTER is not celebrated.
ELBERT EUGENE SPRIGGS “GENE” “YONEQ” AND HIS 4th WIFE, MARSHA ANN “HA EMEQ” DUVALL SPRIGGS are the founders and cannot be criticized by other members. Marsha avoided banishment after she lied about a sexual affair with a much younger disciple. Unmarried teens and adults have been banished for holding hands or kissing. This double-standard is unprecedented, but is mostly denied. When Gene finally found out, he said “her punishment will be that the world will know.” Gene and Marsha have decided all doctrine, rituals, food, clothing, and lifestyle for the Twelve Tribes. Gene’s only son from a previous marriage was never interested in joining and says his dad is leader of a cult.
ELECTRONIC MUSIC INSTRUMENTS are not allowed.
EVANGELISM is a required activity.
EXHAUSTION is common, because members are to give 100% of all they are.
GOING OUT TO EAT is usually not allowed.
HEADBANDS must now be worn by members to the morning and evening gatherings.
HOMES are usually very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer.
HOSPITAL MEDICAL CARE is avoided.
IMMUNIZATIONS/VACCINATIONS are not allowed for babies, children, or adults. Whooping cough and other illnesses have disabled entire communities as a result.
IPOD’S and MP3 PLAYERS are not allowed.
JEWISH FESTIVALS are now celebrated.
LINGERIE is not allowed.
LYING is allowed and encouraged when needed to legally protect the community or individual members.
MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. is called an evil man who deserved to be killed.
MEDICAL DOCTORS are avoided.
MEDICAL INSURANCE is not provided, and is denounced.
MEDICAL NEGLECT is not uncommon, mainly due to insufficient finances, and refusal to buy health insurance for the members. Babies and adults have died from conditions that could have been treated. They would rather take a member to a chiropractor than to a medical doctor or hospital. They will try to barter with dentists and doctors when they can’t avoid their services.
MEDICATIONS are generally not allowed or reduced as much as possible.
MEMBERS WHO LEAVE are condemned by God to Death and possibly the Eternal Lake of Fire.
PERSONAL COMPUTERS are allowed for some, but not for most members.
PERSONAL OPINIONS are to be set aside and forgotten.
PONYTAILS, short in length, are required for men and boys.
RADIO is not allowed.
RETIREMENT is not allowed.
SABBATH DAY OF REST (SATURDAY) WORK is performed in the late afternoon on Saturdays.
SHAVING ANY PART OF THE BODY is not allowed for men or women.
SHEPHERDS are the ruling authority over the household “sheep” which includes you and your family.
SHEEPLIKE QUALITIES are desired in members, such as being easily led.
SOUTHERN CONFEDERACY is sided with in the US Civil War as being more righteous than the North.
TELEVISION is not allowed.
THE TWELVE TRIBES CLAIM:
-The Bible exists only for their benefit.
-To eventually be parenting the 144,000 male virgin evangelists of the Bible book of Revelation.
THE TWELVE TRIBES CLAIM TO BE:
-The only people who are able to understand the Bible.
-The only people who are being saved by God from their sins.
-The only people who have God’s Holy Spirit since the 1st century.
-The only people who really love each other.
-The only people who see and understand life objectively.
-The people God will use to bring about the end of the current world system.
-The true Jews.
THINKING FOR YOURSELF is condemned. The “Mind of the Body” (Tribes mindset and Teachings)” replaces your own personal opinions and mental reasoning. “You just need to take off your head, put it on a shelf, and put on the “Mind of the Body.” “We need a new mind.” “We were taught to think all the wrong ways in the world.”
UNSAFE WORK CONDITIONS have contributed to serious injuries, such as members falling off high ladders and roofs.
VACATIONS are not allowed, though shepherds and their families do “have some time away.”
WAGES are not paid. All members are volunteers who only receive room and board.
WAL-MART is avoided.
WATER DRINKING FOUNTAINS are not allowed, even though not having them makes for a huge amount of dirty glasses to wash in the homes.
WOMEN are to all be under the authority of men, and none have government positions in the Tribes.
WOMEN’S HAIR BEING CUT OR STYLED is not allowed.
WORK all day and all evening, six days a week, has been the norm for years.
WORKMAN’S COMPENSATION INSURANCE is avoided.
The topical report isn't done yet. It will take awhile. I needed to do this for myself, but maybe it will help others really think before they sell everything and join. I don't think God wants humans to be afraid all the time. And I don't think God gets angry and hates things or people. The community is making people afraid and leading them to make serious decisions based upon fear. This seems very wrong to me. My friend in the Tribes is now referring to the community as God's army which will someday erase evil from the earth. I don't like what I'm hearing. It's like terrorist Muslim people. It's the same idea. We should be trying to make the Earth a peaceful place. Real crimes should be punished and people locked up so they don't hurt others. But going beyond this means we end up with another Inquisition and people get punished for their beliefs and various lifestyles. It's very wrong. People who believe in freedom need to stick together. The communities are training their children that everyone in the world is evil, even all of Christianity.
I understand. I agree. But nobody is going to stop them. They keep taking people in. They keep indoctrinating them. The good thing is, maybe more will end up leaving than continue to join?. The majority are innocent people. They are just like us. We wanted a new life. get off drugs. have real friends...
You talk like these are evil people or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. They helped me when no one else would. Even though I didn't choose to stay, they didn't hold it against me. They are truly the most loving people I've met. They gave me a loving home, healthy food, a safe place for my child. I had real friends. Did any of you who say hateful things ever do the same kind things for people you didn't know? Think about it. Look in the mirror first.
Many people AREN'T aware of what they (as a TT member) officially believe. They just know that they'll choose to believe it because they see the "fruit" of their life as evidence that they're fulfilling God's plan for humanity. And the older ones acknowledge that maybe they'll turn out to be incorrect about specific doctrinal things-- but again, the doctrinal things aren't the important part for most of the people there. They value whatever helps them to become more loving.
In the community I lived in for 3 months, they believed the important part wasn't what you BELIEVED, but how you lived (and loved). It's not about what's "right or wrong", but what's "life-giving". Many members echoed the sentiment that if they found some other group that was more loving, they'd join that, but they don't believe there is a more loving way to live than the way they do (with their salvation process).
I still like to visit the community. It's meaningful. Like the people. Enjoy the friendship. Seems like a real life. Most meaningful to me is what people and children share at the gatherings. Completely blew away what I experienced in most other churches. Maybe it's just me. But the personal connection they seem to have with God and each other is really breathtaking at times. Don't know how else to describe it. Deeply moving.
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